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Post subject: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
 Posted: 21.09.2011, 23:11
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Moderator
Joined: 2010-09-11
Posts: 481
Location: cheektowaga, ny
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titan
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Post subject: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 22.09.2011, 06:53
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Joined: 2010-09-11
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| I did read in another article that the EU is already looking into the anti competitive nature of the proposals. |
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DeepDayze
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Post subject: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 22.09.2011, 14:45
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Secure Boot will also lock a system to only Windows 8 so you can't upgrade to another version without having the proper key in place in the BIOS's keystore
Another way for MS to lock Linux and FOSS OS's out as well as locking out older versions of Windows.
In the end Coreboot is sorely needed |
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hubi
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Post subject: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 22.09.2011, 18:03
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Moderator
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Location: Vienna (AT)
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| No user intervention possible to activate or deactivate it? Opt out or opt in? |
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Tilos Rádió Budapest
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dpt
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Post subject: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 22.09.2011, 20:24
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Joined: 2010-09-11
Posts: 281
Location: New Delhi
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| Does it mean that one cannot dual-boot? |
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In a lunatic asylum, everyone thinks that he is the doctor.
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kb0hae
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Post subject: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 22.09.2011, 20:24
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Joined: 2010-09-12
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If hardware makers are smart, they will make this a bios setting that is easily disabled, or worst case a jumper setting on the motherboard to disable. This will otherwise be an extreme pain in the ass fot those who build their own systems, or those that buy a used sustem later on, especially laptops.
It could also raise hardware prices, as hardware makers would need to get their drivers signed. Looks like I will be buying any upgrade/new hardware before any such thing is implemented, and boycoting any system or motherboard/processor where this is not easily disabled.
Eat Sh*t and DIE M$! |
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DeepDayze
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Post subject: Re: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 22.09.2011, 20:53
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Joined: 2010-09-11
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Location: USA
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kb0hae wrote:
If hardware makers are smart, they will make this a bios setting that is easily disabled, or worst case a jumper setting on the motherboard to disable. This will otherwise be an extreme pain in the ass fot those who build their own systems, or those that buy a used sustem later on, especially laptops.
It could also raise hardware prices, as hardware makers would need to get their drivers signed. Looks like I will be buying any upgrade/new hardware before any such thing is implemented, and boycoting any system or motherboard/processor where this is not easily disabled.
Eat Sh*t and DIE M$!
Ditto, and I'll certainly be looking closely at the reviews for such systems to see if this can be disabled easily by the end user. The only thing I can see this for are for enterprise systems where tight control over the system is required.
If MS bullies the PC makers as well as motherboard and graphics card makers then the market should vote with its feet and move to more open systems
dpt wrote:
Does it mean that one cannot dual-boot?
yes as only bootloaders and OS boot files that are digitally signed will be allowed to boot the system. I'm quite sure that GRUB won't be signed at all. In order to get a driver or piece of software signed you'd have to pay M$ big bucks for that privilege...that's money FOSS projects do not have. |
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titan
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 23.09.2011, 06:59
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Joined: 2010-09-11
Posts: 101
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| Maybe time to rekindle development of the openbios programme which seems to have stopped development since 2009. |
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DeepDayze
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 23.09.2011, 13:36
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titan wrote:
Maybe time to rekindle development of the openbios programme which seems to have stopped development since 2009.
Coreboot replaced OpenBIOS I believe |
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Luis_P
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Post subject:
Posted: 17.10.2011, 10:51
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Joined: 2010-09-11
Posts: 171
Location: Barcelona, Spain
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| Perhaps this is the moment which all we, Linux-aptosid users, must endorse this petition. |
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CaesarTjalbo
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Post subject: Re: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 22.10.2011, 12:45
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Joined: 2010-09-13
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Location: Enschede
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DeepDayze wrote:
The only thing I can see this for are for enterprise systems where tight control over the system is required.
Really? This. Is. Just. Typical.
Let me ask you a question: what's the use of copyright valid for decades after the creator dies if it can't be enforced? No use! We need to take a firm stance against the large scale theft of intellectual property that takes place by countless people and we need more than simply draconian legislation and heavy law enforcement.
Please look a bit beyond your own pathetic desires and see how the content industry is constantly being raped and pillaged by ordinary people like you and me. We're talking about the job creators here! If you like piracy that much, feel free to move to Somalia.
It's not more than logical we enhance the user experience by adding valuable DRM and what better way to do that than to control the entire chain of playback equipment from the moment someone decides to enjoy a high quality product of the entertainment industry. Any other approach would open the door wide to piracy, not to mention child pornography. No sane person would dispute the rights holders to enforce regional controls and the ability to sell a license for every new device over and over again.
Contrary to what you seem to believe, this is not against 'open source'. While no-one would want to endorse communism we have to, grudgingly, accept that for a limited amount of uses this 'open source' might be an option for people unable to purchase quality software from a reputed vendor. For these corner cases, there will be appropriate exceptions made to allow you to run certain applications (at your own risk and by forfeiting your warranty) deemed acceptable by the proprietors of your system but only as far as said 'open source' applications do not infringe on rights holders intellectual property or can be used to infringe on valuable intellectual property.
The good people of Microsoft will set up a certification program for manufacturers of 'open source' software ensuring the users the best possible experience and respecting existing and future intellectual property. Remember: god kills a kitten every time someone steals from a rights holder! |
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slam
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 22.10.2011, 15:00
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Team Member
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Posts: 607
Location: w3
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dibl
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Post subject: Re: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 22.10.2011, 19:01
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Joined: 2010-09-12
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Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
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CaesarTjalbo wrote:
god kills a kitten every time someone steals from a rights holder!
Yikes!
Well, I wonder what gets killed every time one of these patent trolls launches a lawsuit? |
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CaesarTjalbo
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 22.10.2011, 21:54
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Joined: 2010-09-13
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Location: Enschede
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slam wrote:
Did I miss the "irony" sign here?
I guess it's hard to distinguish between sarcasm and reality given the arguments brought to the table by the content industry.
What I meant to say was that imho 'Secure Boot' is primarily a tool for content protection, like WGA and HDCP. If it also happens to lock out an 'alternative operating system' then that's no more than a bonus, just like additional security for the end-user.
I foresee that you may be able to run the next version(s) of Windows on an 'unsecured' PC but then without access to HD content and online gaming, for example. It's the next step in the development from owner to licensee; you may think you bought a PC but you merely obtained the right to use it and you might lose that right anytime. In a couple of years you'll have to sign the EULA in the hardware store, not just when you install the software. |
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CaesarTjalbo
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Post subject: Re: RE: Windows 8 locking out GNU/Linux ?
Posted: 22.10.2011, 22:28
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Joined: 2010-09-13
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Location: Enschede
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dibl wrote:
Well, I wonder what gets killed every time one of these patent trolls launches a lawsuit?
In the early days, it was meant to protect the inventor. Capitalism meant that very few owners of production facilities were extra-ordinary powerful compared to individuals with no means of production and a patent worked to protect the idea against the money, for the benefit of both sides.
Things have changed. It's rare anyone invents an entire machine. Most good ideas are small improvements and are worth only in aggregations of many inventions. It's common to see the final properties of something realized in software more than in hardware. There are new fields of development which don't map so easily on the blueprint of industrial development, like genetic research or software, but which may also be a candidate for similar protection. Patents are now used as barriers for entry into a market or as tools for existing entities to siphon off the profits of successful arrivals. The individual inventor can't realistically afford to patent his invention and defend it against infringement.
Those are powerful disadvantages, in fact they're excellent arguments to say that the system of patents is so fundamentally broken, it needs to be ended. But at the moment it's what we have.
When you accept the notion of patents as potentially useful (or simply accept they're reality now), you have to allow for a certain flexibility. Not every patent holder is equally capable of doing something with a patent in terms of manufacturing. In come the licenses to grant another the right to do something with a patent. So far so good.
The next step in intellectual property are patent pools. In stead of having a manufacturer deal with a great many individual patent holders, you set up a one-stop-shop to cover all or the most of the intellectual property in a given field. MPEG-LA is a good example. It sucks a little but if you were to obtain licenses, it's quite convenient and such a pool would also free the patent holders from administrating their patents, giving them time to invent more useful stuff. Not so terrible.
One step further is the possibility to sell a patent. "I sell you the right to license other people to use my patent." Weird? Not so, maybe I've good ideas but no interest in milking them for the next decades and I'm happy to get a lump sum from a company specialized in looking after patents. Philosophically, the idea of 'intellectual property' is nonsense (you can't really own an idea) but in legal terms these rights are worth money and there's no reason not to treat them as any other property.
We call such a company a 'patent troll'. It feels they're gaming the system in an unfair way but when you think about it, it's a completely logical and sensible construction. Who cares if they're not the ones who did the invention or if they're not actually using the patents for manufacture. The rights exist, be it with an inventor, a competing firm or a 'patent troll'; it doesn't really change the system. |
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